Disgusting disgusting disgusting disgusting
No one ever use this brand again. They literally have so many competitors with cheaper fees.
Fuck I fucking hate this fucking timeline
My take: they are BOTH creeps. The dude ordered food, then got nude. That is a weird thing to do when you are expecting someone you aren’t having sex with.
The lady is also a creep, because she entered the home and filmed him, then uploaded the vid. Most delivery folk just drop the food at the doorstep or push the doorbell to hand off the food. Going into a home is outside of their duties, for all sorts of reasons.
Doordash is also a baddy. They should have paid what the deliveryman is owed, and THEN formally deactivate their employment.
Classic “ESH” (everyone sucks here). As much as people like to pick a good guy and bad guy, a very significant percentage of shitty situations come down to ESH.
Fuck Doordash! Please stop using those services! They’re inherently exploitative.
I already looked into answering your door nude and yes that is legal, indecent exposure. It’s not SA though.
The door being wide open i think is the factor here. Seems strange in any situation I could think of. The nudes part is easily explain but why is the door wide open?
This is why every app that touches money should be peer to peer. DoorDash would be an escrow, but unable to unilaterally seize the funds.
That’s…what escrow is.
Escrow is third party, second party can’t be escrow. In this case door dash can’t really be an escrow as it will be second party.
In this case I’d consider the first two parties to be the seller and buyer, with DD as a middleman.
Ok then thats still not peer-to-peer, it’s an escrow service.
p2p escrow typically requires 2 of 3 signatures, not 1 of 1.
Seems likely. Doordash and Uber are fucking trash.
As are all corporations.
Weird story. Apparently, the delivery driver walked into the customers home (door was open) where he was waiting? with his pants and underwear down.
When I delivered pizza, I would absolutely never enter a home. That’s like rule #1. Really good way to get robbed. Or see something you don’t want to.
And seeing a naked man in his home is not the same as being sexually assaulted. It’s gross and probably illegal if he set it all up for sexual gratification, but unless there’s more to this story, there was no assault.
I’m not sure what she wanted door dash to do about it? If you report something like that they obviously won’t respond immediately, it would get flagged and sent to a legal team.
Yeah going inside was dumb and should be against the rules if it isn’t already. Still I would expect them to ban the dude from placing future orders and would want to know if they had ignored previous reports about him (probably need a lawyer of your own to find that out though). No reason they should block her from money she earned even if they don’t allow her to do more orders until they find out what happened.
When I delivered pizza, I would absolutely never enter a home. That’s like rule #1. Really good way to get robbed. Or see something you don’t want to.
I also delivered pizza and knew this rule… Partly because fellow drivers and my workplace told me about it. These drivers don’t have coworkers nor bosses that tell them what is and what isn’t safe. A lot of them are young and have never worked with the general public, or have previously been very sheltered.
And seeing a naked man in his home is not the same as being sexually assaulted. It’s gross and probably illegal if he set it all up for sexual gratification, but unless there’s more to this story, there was no assault.
Yes, it is… Like most people, you are confusing assault with battery. Sexual assault is any nonconsensual sexual contact(meeting/encounter). Sexual battery or aggravated sexual assault is sexual assault with the use or threat of force.
I’m not sure what she wanted door dash to do about it? If you report something like that they obviously won’t respond immediately, it would get flagged and sent to a legal team.
Some of the apps require you to get a code from the buyer to get paid for the delivery.
I don’t really know why we are blaming the victim here?
Yes, it is… Like most people, you are confusing assault with battery. Sexual assault is any nonconsensual sexual contact(meeting/encounter). Sexual battery or aggravated sexual assault is sexual assault with the use or threat of force.
An alternate perspective: he had a peeper let herself into his house, then accuse him of being naked in his own home.
From her perspective, she obviously believes it was an intentional assault. On the other side of the same coin, it’s entirely possible that she just strolled into some dude’s house when he wasn’t expecting it. And if that’s the case, he was the one who was assaulted. He was out of public view, and being naked in the privacy of your own home isn’t a crime by itself. By her own admission, she entered his house.
My point is simply that we can’t know what happened, because none of us were there. So to simply open by stating that she was assaulted is inherently biased. If he intentionally set it up for his own gratification, he assaulted her. I’m not arguing against that. But if he genuinely wasn’t expecting someone to let themselves into his house, (because honestly, why would anyone think that’s okay to do?) then he’s actually the victim here.
And the actual “what happened” part is something for lawyers to argue over in court. If he had a note saying to let herself in, and the front door was standing wide open, it’s a pretty open and shut case against him. Still a monumentally stupid move on the driver’s part, (because seriously, why would you ever enter someone’s home while making a delivery?) but it would obviously be something that he orchestrated. But again, that’s for the lawyers to argue about, because there could be confounding factors. After all, there are plenty of perfectly valid (and perfectly legal) reasons for someone to be naked in the privacy of their own home.
What if there was no note to let yourself in, and he just had the door open because he was airing out the house on a nice day? Maybe he expected the driver to leave his food on the porch. Maybe he didn’t have his phone on him (because he was naked and had no pockets) and therefore didn’t feel the notification that the driver was on their way. Those are just a few quick what-ifs off the top of my head, and any of them could be possible. And what if, after any of those scenarios, the dude reported the driver for walking in on him? We don’t know why she was banned, but from DoorDash’s perspective it could be acting on a report that the driver essentially broke into someone’s home. We don’t have enough info to say either way.
DoorDash should at least allow her to access her earnings. That part is shitty, and saying “but she signed a contract saying they can withhold her earnings” is (at best) an extremely shitty excuse.
If the door was open and there was no response when you rang/ called out and you expected someone to be there i think it’s pretty normal to want to enter and make sure whomever was at home was ok. Filming your entry would be smart too. The girl might have expected to find someone injured or maybe even a corpse.
Don’t excuse this guy’s behavior. He set up a deliberate situation in order to make her uncomfortable. That is sexual assault.
Also, she didn’t “go into” his house. He was visible from well outside the door. Which is viewable from public areas. Which is a crime.
“Making her uncomfortable” is not sexual assault. Where, exactly, is the assault? Saying shit like this cheapens and trivializes actual sexual assaults and the impact those words have on society.
If I go out naked under a trench coat and flash someone that is sexual assault. I’m getting off on the power of being able to expose myself to them without their consent.
This man lured this woman in for the same reason.
And if I’m asleep in the buff on my couch and you come over to look at my junk, you’re the pervert, not me. Screaming “sexual assault” like some kind of catch all for your own fuckups is not a magic spell that will make everything better. All you are doing is actively hurting the credibility of people who actually experience sexual assault. Read the material.
Me inviting my friends over and being ass naked when they showed up would be very upsetting to them. Me claiming “It’s my own home!” doesn’t fly. It smells like I’m crafting a scenario where I can expose myself while claiming innocence.
This guy ordered food, asked for a handoff and then left his door open to lure her in so he could expose himself to her.
The only reason you’re giving this guy so much slack is because, and you actually do have this tagged with your username on my lemmy app, you are a misogynist.
The guy ordered food, fell asleep on the couch, and woke up to a woman recording him nude in his own home. You know what that sounds like? Sounds a lot like sexual assault.
In fact, door dash has specific policies AGAINST going into private homes for exactly this kind of safety and privacy related concern. I have 59 year old relatives. You know what 100% of them have in common? A love of naps.
Keep white knighting for women you’ll never know, it’ll impress all your terminally online friends.
Well, maybe deacticate the guy’s account instead of the victim? Or arbitrate it properly? Definitely not disable access to her account (and money). But I guess now she has a legal case against them for both negligence and wage theft (I know the US doesn’t really prosecute wage theft, even though it is the biggest form of financial theft).
“deactiate”
Sounds like she posted her video of the customer online, which would seem to make her hands unclean. Taking the video for your own evidence sure, but posting it online crosses a line. So I could easily see both parties having their accounts suspended.
So he likely set a trap for a stranger to get a show to get off on being a bit of an exhibitionist, but it’s hard to really prove that intent, and she took a video of it and then posted it online, which is another whole can of worms being opened.
Now if they are refusing to let her take money from doordash, she’s got a legal case, though unsure if it is ‘wage theft’, since the whole loophole with these ‘gig’ companies is that there’s no employment and it’s all transactional. Terribly exploitative system.
I assumed they froze both accounts to have a legal team properly review everything. Even a small complaint can get your account frozen. And it’s not wage theft when you’re technically a third party contractor.
Are you under the impression that third party contractors are not paid wages?
The article uses the term harassment more than assault. Either way rape isn’t the only thing charged as sexual assault and depending on jurisdiction, can encapsulate a variety of offending.
Sexual assault is a broad term that captures any sexual act or attempt to engage in a sexual act where consent is not obtained or freely and voluntarily given. It represents any behaviour of a sexual nature that makes someone feel uncomfortable, frightened, intimidated, or threatened.
Also, so what if it wasn’t that form of specific sexual assault? I doubt your implying that anything less than rape should be handwaved away so I’m a bit confused by the whole “that isn’t sexual assault” rhetoric I’ve seen on this post.
I doubt your implying
This is exactly it. A lot of people out there don’t think it’s anything unless they’ve full on held you down and penetrated. And they go on the internet and think they can be clever in trying to use too many words to justify it like they’re Jordan Peterson or something.
Yeah, it’s been a grim series of comment chains. I expected better for some reason but hey at least there’s been some pushback to that rhetoric i guess.
Assault, to me, is the threat of physical escalation. So if he attempted or threatened to touch her or made suggestive comments or implications, that would be assault.
If he just really wanted to expose himself to a stranger? Maybe lewd behavior or something? He’s in his own home and there’s nothing illegal about just being naked in your home.
He’s gross and deserves to lose his account, but what else do you think should happen?
Ok well the legal definition is different, so that is worth factoring in to your own definition. That doesn’t even work for traditional physical assault, as in some jurisdictions you can be charged with assault for threatening it as well.
If he just really wanted to expose himself to a stranger? Maybe lewd behavior or something? He’s in his own home and there’s nothing illegal about just being naked in your home
Just is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that first sentence. As I mentioned in another reply, being naked in your home (which is relevant to public nudity/indecency laws, not sexual harassment or assault laws) can be illegal if viewable from public spaces. Just because he may not be eligible to be charged for public indecency, doesn’t mean he can’t be charged with another offence.
He’s gross and deserves to lose his account, but what else do you think should happen?
Some form of sexual harassment/assault charge, even if minor, unless he can demonstrate with evidence there’s a reasonable explanation for him being naked when he knows a stranger is approaching his home. Maybe a small fine/community work but most importantly the charge establishes a history of sexual offences if his offending develops into a pattern or escalates in the future.
Read my comment again. I said “the threat of physical escalation”.
She had to walk in his home to see him naked. Public indecency laws don’t apply. His home isn’t a public space, even if he left the door open.
He’s probably a pervert, I’m not arguing against that. But people are allowed to be naked in their home. And if you go into people’s homes, even for your job, you might see them naked. It’s gross if it’s on purpose, but it’s absolutely not sexual assault.
Read my comment again. I said “the threat of physical escalation”.
??? I did and my reply was “that’s your definition. The courts dont operate under your definitions” but polite.
She had to walk in his home to see him naked.
Source? Even if she did after, the door was open. After he instructed her to “leave it at the door”.
Public indecency laws don’t apply. His home isn’t a public space, even if he left the door open.
Im just going to paste what I already replied to you in another thread
But, “exposure can be deemed indecent if visible from public areas, such as a street or neighbor’s yard,”
You do seems to be trying very hard to argue this behaviour is fine and appear to be doing your absolute best not to understand the myriad of information I’ve presented to you as being indicative of this man being a potential sexual offender. Yo yo’ing from “being naked in your house isn’t illegal” to “this doesn’t meet my definition of sexual assault” despite both of those being incorrect contextually and arguably irrelevant.
I’m not jumping in on either side, but specifically going to point to this specific issue of confusion where YOU are confused.
The other person said “threat of physical escalation”, you responded “in jurisdictions you can be charged for threatening it as well”. In other words, what you said did nothing to contradict what they said, hence why they told you to re-read what they said. Because from their perspective, your evidence for how the courts don’t necessarily align with their definitions doesn’t actually say anything meaningful because you basically just agreed with them lol
Blaming the victim and defending the pervert isn’t a good look.
Is she the victim, though? From what I understand, the guy wasn’t at the door, but asleep (or pretending to be) in his own home, which should be entirely legal. The “more info” link says the door was ajar and she filmed him. If she pushed open the door, entered his home and filmed him there, she might be the sex offender here.
Of course if he set this up intentionally, that’s exhibitionism (not voyeurism, as the article incorrectly calls it), but still, inside his own home. I feel like that should be a safe place where you can dress or undress however you like. Although being visible from the outside might be an issue. I think this issue hinges on whether she had to push open the door or enter his home to see him exposed.
Yeah, ordering delivery then getting naked seems like normal behavior.
Can’t they leave the food at your door?
Why’d he leave the door wide open?
Order food > leave door open > get naked inside
Doesn’t take a genius to put two amd teo together
I wasn’t talking about this specific situation. Just in general. Can’t you ask them just to leave it and then being naked or not isn’t a problem.
It does sound like drunk behaviour. Or maybe even old person behaviour.
Naturists are often naked in their home. Lots of people are naked after a shower. He could have gotten home tired, order food, have a quick shower, and crash on the couch after that.
A deliverer should just ring the doorbell and wait at the door, not enter uninvited or try to peer inside.
I mean, it could have been an intentional exhibitionist setup, but it doesn’t have to be. And entering someone’s home and filming them sleeping naked, sounds a lot creepier to me.
I mean, the guy could be a creep, but he could be innocent too. She might be the innocent victim, but she might also be the creep here. We only hear her side of the story.
I’m sure she wasn’t trying to be the creep, but her reaction of posting the video online of the customer was absolutely out of line. That’s evidence for your own possible cases maybe, but certainly not for indiscriminate sharing.
Oof, people digging deeper to justify this creep is making this thread real weird
Except if they’re actually correct about what happened then you’re just ignoring the facts of the issue to just label some random guy a creep based on faulty info and judging people for wanting to know what actually happened
Exactly. Look, if the guy is a creep and set this up intentionally, then shame on him and I hope at the very least he gets banned from door dash. I’m just saying we’re only hearing one side of the story, and there seems to be some questionable aspects to that side, so I’m a bit reluctant to judge the guy based on that.
I’m all for condemning creeps when it’s clear that they are creeps. I’m just a bit reluctant to judge someone on so little and somewhat vague evidence.
Walking into someone’s home and complaining you saw him naked is not assault.
So when I say it, I get downvoted to hell. But when this guy says it, it makes sense. Got it.
Edit: I literally said the exact same thing.
Edit: I can’t read
“Disable your ad blocker to see this content” no I don’t think I will Admiral
I wish there was some way to make site owners understand that neither I nor most people object to the occasional ad banner, it’s the “tracking every single thing you do online and selling it to Palantir” aspect that I’m blocking you for.
This is exactly why I refuse to use gig services. They’re all the worst kind of exploitation. It’s like a bandaid solution but made out of used painters tape.
Remove “tape” and you’re correct.
Labor lawsuit incoming
She will lose as she entered someone’s home without permission
Okay but also don’t record people without their consent and post it publicly. Idk why she was suspended but that would be reason enough.
If you think it would be evidence of a crime and you felt like you needed it to pursue charges I could understand saving a photo or video privately to later turn over, but suppose dude got blitzed, ordered DoorDash, and passed out before it arrived, and you’re gonna share that with 8 billion of your closest friends? Gtfo
The fact that she filmed him inside his own home certainly sounds iffy to me. Do door dashers carry a body cam that films everything? That could explain how she accidentally filmed him. But if she filmed him intentionally, inside his own home, then doesn’t that technically make her the sex offender in this story?
Whether she accidentally or intentionally filmed him, I think that’s within her rights. But either way, it was not within her rights to go and share that on the internet, accidental or intentional.
Filming someone naked inside their own home? I don’t see how that’s within her rights. If she was outside, or she had an automatic body cam. Or if he was actually threatening or assaulting her and not asleep. Those are the only excuses I can think of.
Guess I haven’t seen the video, so I don’t know if she went inside without being asked or the door was wide open and he was just right there.
At least I could understand if she thought he had set an exhibitionist trap and wanted some evidence… but if she thought a cracked door meant to open up and maybe hand the food directly without being expressly invited in.
Butb while I’m trying to imagine a scenario that lets her at least go as gay as recording it, can’t imagine it being justified to post it for the world.
I’m inclined to think she was grossed out, but taking it too seriously, even by her account it’s just a naked dude not even looking her way or saying anything. A private complaint that the dude had his door open and naked woukd have sufficed without trying to trial by Internet here. I don’t know if it was an old guy, a drunk guy, a sleepy guy or an exhibitionist. But in any event her posting the video is certainly enough to have her account suspended.
Nope, she wasn’t trespassing and he doesn’t have a reasonable expectation of privacy from her.
A door being open is not an excuse to go into someones home. That literally is trespassing.
That depends on the situation, she was invited over.
Consent is important to you in regard to her behaviour but a dude obviously lying in order to expose himself to a young woman? “What consent, oh and he was probably just drunk or some other excuse”. Where has the video been shared because I can’t track it down?
Edit: this guy upvoted the following comment further down.
Pretty much “she was probably shit at her job and made it all up” but I’m sure you’re super concerned about consent and privacy though lol.
Disgusting.
I mean, seems pretty minor tbh. She arrived, and his door was open, he was sleeping and naked. Just drop the food and dip. Why pull out your phone and start filming?
“It’s cold outside… your lights are on, your door is open, and you just ordered DoorDash… And within 15 minutes, you’re asleep on the couch naked? Come on now. That is voyeurism,” she said regarding the incident.
Or maybe, just don’t be a creep that strips (or remains) naked and tries to get a gig worker to see you naked? You’re a woman at work and a strange man, in an area unfamiliar to you, has tried to engineer a situation where you walk into him being naked. Recording was likely a safety instinct as well as expecting people wouldn’t believe her if she decided to report something.
I don’t think people expecting to work without random men getting naked around them is the problem here.
I’m not saying it’s not wrong. I’m just saying this is way blown out of proportion. If you see a naked man while working, why are you hanging around. Just leave.
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of intoxication? Passing out naked is not an uncommon occurrence. I’m sure there are other reasons this could have happened without any ill intent whatsoever.
I will grant you that it is a weird and uncomfortable thing to walk in on as a stranger but calling it sexual assault feels like an insult to rape victims.
If I get drunk and crash into a sidewalk, that doesn’t change the nature of what happened nor my responsibility in bringing it about. Even if he was drunk and got naked, it changes virtually nothing about the situation. I don’t get to go around waving my little guy at women just because I get pissed prior.
I think the term sexual harassment was used not assault (edit: in the article. Regardless assault can mean different things in different jurisdictions). Not holding people who engage in sexual harassment (or assault) to account decreases the safety of women who could be put in that situation daily. It also enables perpetrators by excusing their behaviour. There could be a million explanations for why he was naked, some might even be plausible but more likely the guy is a creep.
You’re right it doesn’t matter if he was drunk or not.
If she entered his home without permission she’s at fault.
If he lured her in to expose himself intentionally then he’s at fault.
To the people asking “who orders delivery naked” it take maybe 2 seconds to throw on shorts and a shirt. Or he could have a robe to put on
Either way we don’t have enough details to determine anything. The only thing we have enough facts on is doordash being scummy and stealing money from the driver
i don’t order delivery but i’ve placed many a takeout order naked.
Drunk driving is illegal, as is public nudity. Being drunk and naked in your own home is not. Unless something else happened, he didn’t do anything strictly illegal.
Something else did happen, he ordered food and had someone coming around to deliver said food and left the door open. Also, he potentially did do something illegal, again from the article:
The legal criteria for indecent exposure often rely on the idea of an incident happening in “public space.” But, “exposure can be deemed indecent if visible from public areas, such as a street or neighbor’s yard,” according to legalclarity.org.
Indecent exposure is not sexual assault and he was in his home!
It’s gross, but the overreaction is ridiculous
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You’d have to have admission of guilt from the guy to prove anything.
I don’t know about you but I don’t try to enter stranger’s homes regardless of if the door is open or not.
This whole thing rests on “did he intentionally leave the door open with the intent to expose himself” or “did she illegally enter his home and saw him. The door being left open unintentionally”. We need a lot more facts to know for sure.
Edit: It’s come to my attention that there is no evidence she entered the home at all. That’s a baseless claim being spread in this thread. The article is vague on the matter. If he was visible from the door that changes things
How about we agree that both of you can be correct?
Why the actual fuck would we do that tho?
I think the larger point here is the article has presented someone as being a potential victim of sexual harassment; in which she faces punishment from her employers. Yet people are questioning her actions and making excuses for the bloke. I think that’s worth pointing out, not really a matter of “being correct” imo.
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