I hope he gets a nurse with a fake degree the next time they have to rush his fat ass to Walter Reed.
I feel like this is related to H1B visas. The Trump admin wants to ban them and one barrier I think was most of our nurses for hospice etc are immigrants (I’m filipino, this is known), so banning H1Bs would impact nursing. This may be their way of banning H1Bs while keeping the nurses around. Unsure of how nursing relates to the H1B program, I’m a software engineer my experience with it is from coworkers having the visas.
I’m sure this affects student loans and education grants as well.
Its for RNs who want to become APRNs/NPs. “Professionals” meant things like doctor and lawyer, and required a grad program. It won’t affect nursing as an associates (RN) or bachelor’s (BSN).
That being said, Healthcare CEOs fucking LOVE them some APRNs, so this will get changed back within a year I’d bet.
It’s an attack on women. Nursing has historically been one of the only accepted paths for women to make a living wage. It’s an equivalent wage to the construction or police profession that is typically male dominated. I expect to see a lot of attacks on women’s ability to be self sufficient in the coming years. Subjugation and forced birth is the goal.
Probably has a lot to do with their decades-long assault on teaching, too.
Agreed. Teaching and nursing also usually lead to student debt unlike construction and police jobs
Haven’t looked at what nurses made in 20 years, but why do I feel like I’m going to be sad when I find out they make the same as police.
That’s fine. I’ll ask my wife and her friends, a mix of NPs, PAs, and RNs, if they recognize the current administration as professional.
Answer will be no and they can kick rocks.
This is also clearly be design to cut peoples access to education as well as reduce the total number of healthcare workers. A double whammy.
It’s also targeting fields that are usually a majority of women on top of the access.
There are also a huge number of minorities and immigrants, especially if you’re including CNAs.
My partner is a nurse here in the Northeast. Unfortunately a lot of her coworkers are Trumpies.
Most of them are practically disengaged from politics and only follow their (male) partner’s political beliefs. If they’re from one of the surrounding rural (white and low income) areas, the chances they’re like this are higher. Not shockingly, a fair amount of their partners are cops.
It’s strange and disheartening to hear about nurses she works with who flaunt that they won’t get the covid vaccine, who denigrate patients with substance abuse disorder, who verbalize that they would rather not treat a trans person, and who treat black and brown folks like a different species. But it’s definitely a trend in nursing culture up here.
Its especially difficult for my partner who chose this path in large part because of her acute sense of empathy. The state of healthcare is just bad here.
Most of them are practically disengaged from politics and only follow their (male) partner’s political beliefs. If they’re from one of the surrounding rural (white and low income) areas, the chances they’re like this are higher. Not shockingly, a fair amount of their partners are cops.
Also, some of them have scary levels of religious fanaticism.
slams buzzer ER nurse.
No no, see, they’re part of the demographic that’s predestined for success because this is their country, so it’ll all work out for them, no matter how many things this administration does to strip them of their title, success, income, benefits, rights, and dignity.
Nurse Practitioners, Pennsylvanias, and Registered Nurses? 🤔
No Pants, Partially Attired, and Rarely Nude
So basically most female Wimbledon contestants?
And males, if I’m reading the rules right. Yumminess everywhere. I wonder if any of those players get kinky with rackets… probably not, but it’s a fun little thing to imagine.
Depends on whether or not you consider shorts to be pants. Personally, I do 🤷
I assume they mean physicians assistant
And RN usually means “registered nurse”.
biggest employer in many states btw, it’s like they want the economy to crash
they do. they want to rule the ashes.
…Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
To reign is worth ambition though in hell:
Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven.
Lucifer: Paradise Lost
Step one: Get into power Step two: Crash the economy Step Three: buy up every on the cheap whike destroying welfare and anything you want rid of. Step four: Monopolies for the rich, corporoticracy for everyone else.
Fellas, is it good when I stop funding nursing education in the middle of a nurse shortage
They want us to die. Nothing they’ve demonstrated has shown anything but a deep, willful satisfaction in making American citizens suffer and a desire to kill off anyone who isn’t a member of the administration.
I hope you dipshit Lemmy leftist kids are prepared to actually work to vote people out in the coming midterms and following 2028 election, and not get lost down some third-party fantasy or hold tight for “the revolution” to start.
They want to reduce the needed learning so they can pay people less to do the same job but pass it off as some streamlining process to address shortages. They’re still going to charge the same for care but pay less to those who provide it.
Taking an actual problem and looking to address it from a capitalist view point so that line always goes up.
Is it good when i, a crumbling octogenarian vote away all the systems keeping me tethered to this mortal form?
Making nursing school less affordable will affect the number of nurses in like 4? 6? Years. You as an octogenarian may not expect to need care that far in the future
It’ll be immediate because there are certain nursing certifications that take much less. Nurses are going to lose financing for that and it’ll create shortages within a year.
Just as good as deporting immigrant truckers during a ongoing trucker shortage. Big brains in the White House, clearly.
Likely it was done due to some promise from an AI robotics firm or something.
Don’t fuck with the nurses, bro.
Well you’re welcome in Canada where you’re still considered an essential service, which absolutely has “professional” all over it.
Hell, Canada NEEDS medical professionals
Yet, we elect right winger MAGA types who refuse to fund them.
I wouldn’t get to excited. It also needs have a have en effective way to validate the credentials of medical professionals. The current system is extremely inefficient and leaves great professionals out.
“The department determined that the following programs were professional: medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, optometry, law, veterinary medicine, osteopathic medicine, podiatry, chiropractic, theology and clinical psychology. This meant that physician assistants, nurse practitioners, physical therapists and audiologist were excluded from the list.”
Theology and clinical psychology? I didn’t even know that was a career choice, let alone one I could take out a $200,000 loan for.
lol chiropractor and theology are professionals.
Quacklifications by a quack administration
It’s a career. But you can age out of it, like pro sports.
Doesn’t pay as well as pro sports though…
Clinical psychologists are PhD level therapists and are very good at what they do generally
I think they were pointing out the lack of an Oxford comma, which makes “theology and clinical psychology” seem like one thing instead of two.
Oh you right, my b
Both are based on holy books with no measurable scientific basis, so I guess it tracks.
Butthurt by the subjectivity of life, this one
Is that in the DSM?
Lemme guess, schizophrenia isn’t real, huh
That would be treated by a psychiatrist, not a psychologist.
So my eyes, feet, and soul need professional care, but not my ears? Wild.
You’ll notice most of those that “aren’t professional” have a high rate of poor people going into those programs. This is the administration trying to kill upward mobility entirely.
Minutes since a trump friend/sycophant said something incomprehensibly stupid: 0
When the MAGA shit stains visit the ER, I hope the first nurse they see is a full blown liberal.
Why do you want them to have qualified care?
No give them a MAGA nurse, and tell the nurse it’s a liberal, and let them eat each other.They gonna get saline instead of actual meds. Patient is gonna hobble out cause the lib nurse is gonna poison them with covid boosters and Tylenol.
Damn good point! +1
MAGA is the easiest crowd to be a nurse and care for. “Here’s your ivermectin and bootstraps to pull yourself up by.” Problem solved. If they can’t get better with either hard work or horse pills then they aren’t fit to survive…
As for the rest of us, I’m keeping my dope ass mRNA vaccines thank you very much.
Agreed, but lets be real, none of them would ever set foot in a publicly available health institution. All high-end private care for the rich while we get to pay out the nose for band-aids and autism tablets.
I think they’d relish the idea of a liberal wiping their ass.
But that’s just the CNAs. Not a real nurse. Not like they’d know the difference.
Awesome! Just as I was going to start nursing school next year. This could not be better news!! 😭
Come to Canada eh?
There is unemployment already for CDN nurses.
Don’t we have a shortage…?
Shortage’s are very common, but from what I’m aware it’s not due to lack of nurses, it’s due to the hospitals not staffing appropriately to save money for their CEOs.
Of course it is… 🤦♂️
Yeah this is actually a huge issue that drives me crazy. Patients do not get nearly as good care as they could have if hospitals just staffed appropriately, people literally die because of this and it still happens because the hospital gas-lights everyone by making up bullshit excuse. At least in the U.S. Anytime you ask why things are they way they are and wonder how it can be better, follow the money. It’s always greedy assholes fucking up the world.
try to go abroad where nurses are still valued.
I want to stop being surprised but I can’t imagine the sheer depth of inhumanity and monstrosity of these people, and I am someone who grew up with a lifelong hatred of Nazis and their mythic-levels of cruelty.
Sure let’s cut back the amount of available nurses to an already struggling count of nurses why not. May as well just say “don’t be a nurse, we don’t value it.” Getting the same treatment as teachers now it seems like.
If they make government work they can’t keep lying about how it does not work.
Weel, they’re never going to stop lying.
Actually not sure how I feel about that. They simply classified it for the same caps on student loans as the rest of us, rather than the higher one for roles like doctors.
Both caps are bad, for all of us. Our college education rates are already far too low, and now we’re trying to make college more unaffordable?
But I guess I assumed a nurse’s education was similar to a four year degree, although I don’t know. Is it not? The nurse they quoted claimed 15 years of college: surely that can’t be normal. Isn’t that more than doctors get?
There’s a difference between an LPN, an RN, etc. Some nurses do have doctorates, which yeah, might be about the same amount of education that a doctor typically gets.
There’s a perception that nurses are “lesser” than doctors - but nursing is fundamentally a different skill set.
LVN takes about two years, RN 4, and BSN another year after RN.
Nurses are the ones delivering the majority of your care, while doctors either diagnose you or are surgeons of some sort.
To sum this up, it’s another attack on healthcare. Do you want uneducated nurses taking care of you every needs? Because nurses are all you’ve got, doctors don’t lift a fucking finger doing bedside work.
Think you’re a little mixed up with your time lines :). ADN is a 2 year degree. BSN is a 4 year degree. RN is a license, no specific timeline (other than having to obtain ADN or BSN to be eligible to sit for the NCLEX).
Ah yes, thanks for the correction. Additionally, RN to BSN programs are 1-2 years depending on the program.
Again, y’all are are getting too hung up on the label. No one is saying they’re not critical. “Professional” in this case seems to mean “qualifies for more student loans, like Doctors”, instead of “qualifies for student loans like everyone else”. I’m not saying nurses aren’t professional, I’m saying it looks like their education costs more similar to mine than to a doctors.
AND Y’ALL ARE MISSING THE POINT. Everyone getting hung up on whether this insults the people forming the core of our healthcare system are missing the part where they’re limiting student loans for everyone
For one of the local colleges it costs about 100K
So new limits on student loans
- $50k cap for most of us
- $200k cap for “professionals” like doctors
- no more parent plus loans
Even public universities are more than that everywhere (a few like Massachusetts has means tested free tuition)
Only the very wealthy will be able to afford private school
Given the loans taken out by doctors I know, that’s not even close
Nor should a doctor “lift a fucking finger doing bedside work.” There are a lot fewer of them than nurses and they need to diagnose and manage multiple teams that are taking care of patients. No doctor has time to come and tuck you in and bring a glass of ice chips.
Most nurses also don’t have the time. It’s usually nursing assistants bringing you ice chips. Nurses do a lot of what many people might imagine to be a doctor’s purview, or for which they might not realize the complexity and importance. E.g., it’s not a doctor carefully cleaning and dressing your wounds so that you don’t develop a systemic infection, nor is the doctor watching your vital signs or adjusting intravenous medication infusion rates while your organs balance on a knife’s edge, nor is it a doctor who pumps you full of epinephrine to restart your heart after you’ve slipped off the mortal coil. Doctors diagnose and order the treatment, but nurses carry it out, and that too requires specialized knowledge and skills which necessitate intensive education. Ask any nurse, and they’ll tell you that nursing school was one of the hardest experiences of their life.
But that’s all kind of irrelevant to the issue, which is loan eligibility for graduate-level education for nurses. That is, for roles like nurse practitioners and nurse anesthetists, whose job functions and responsibilities significantly overlap with those of medical doctors. Much of the conversation in this thread, and the article itself, confuses that. Associate and bachelor level nursing degrees (the degrees held by most nurses, and the nurses doing the bedside care) weren’t eligible for the loans this rule impacts in the first place.
And it’s this comment right here that makes me say this. “No doctor has the time to come and tuck you in and bring you a glass of ice chips” well guess what? Nurses don’t either. CNAs are the ones who do that. Recently I had a doctor tell me he didn’t think nurses should be striking for better wages because “all they do is wipe asses and push gurney’s” these doctors give being a doctor a bad name. Don’t look down on the people actually carrying out the healthcare, because without them you have nothing.
There’s only a shortage of doctors because the AMA restricts the number of medical colleges so that the number of doctors is artificially kept low so that they continue to make super high wages.
Actually, the problem is the number of residencies. Once you graduate from medical school, you MUST complete an accredited residency program to be able to practice independently. The number of residency programs is controlled by Congress because residencies are funded through Medicare, and the last substantial increase in the number of residencies was when they added 1000 more in the Covid Omnibus bill.
It’s actually a growing crisis because more medical schools are opening and existing ones are increasing their class sizes, but the number of residencies isn’t keeping pace. This means that more and more people are going to be medical graduates with no way of obtaining a medical license without a residency and therefore no way to pay off their student loans. There’s a couple stories every year about medical graduates that couldn’t get into residency or couldn’t complete residency that end up dying by suicide, but it gets pretty effectively swept under the rug.
Even progressive countries with excellent medical programs have a chronic shortage of doctors these days. So it’s not nearly that as much as you want to think.
Learning medicine is a long and hard road and there are so many fine details you need to be perfect at. And nothing less than perfection is expected from your teachers, peers, and patients. And even yourself.
I think you’ve missed the point. You seem to think that the changes wouldn’t affect anything. But if they wouldn’t change anything, then why are they being made? So in reality, you’re arguing against reality. And you’re arguing against facts that people have provided you.
Nope I’m arguing that the overall change to cut financial aid is a bad one, and which category nursing falls into is a distraction
The nurse they quoted claimed 15 years of college
15 years of experience, it seems, and since I’m pretty sure most nurses aren’t in a union, what do you want to bet her wages/cost of living ratio actually went down over those 15 years. A relative of mine is in the same business of IV hydration, and it’s definitely because the potential money is way better than her other options.
